Monday, September 30, 2013

theological musings

If, as Mormonism asserts, there was no Church on earth from the death of the last apostle to the LDS restoration in the 19th century, why, one wonders, did the Mormon God let that awful situation go on for all that time? Every human born is an incarnation of a pre-existent spirit-child of that Mormon God and his wife or wives, a literal son or daughter. Why let so many of your offspring be born so, well, pointlessly, into times when their progress toward exaltation was simply unavailable to them?

I wonder the same thing about the Reformation. All those many centuries of decay, when the True Faith was unavailable. How do Prots make sense of that?

One of the things that theists have to deal with, and don't, is that in the long evolution of the planet, aeons prior to the emergence of Homo sapiens, "innocent" animals were suffering and dying, killing and being killed, eating and being eaten, in vast numbers. These creatures, lacking immortal souls, can have no recompense for their pain. God designed all that, long before, as the Christians say, the sin of Adam and Eve brought death into the world. What does that say about The Creator?

One of the characteristics of polytheist paganism is that ultimate power does not belong to the gods. Whether they be Greek or Norse, what rules them all is Fate. (And Eros...)

In Buddhism, where there is no God, it is Karma which rules all. Merely Fate with an ethical twist.



Anonymous said...

Fate is of great concern to the Thirteen. Everything has a destiny and purpose. When They decided to create rational creatures in their image, They created the universe in just the right way so that things would line up just so- this fish lived to pass on its genes, that reptile was eaten by a carnivore- for a species that was in the image and likeness of the Godhead arose. The Stranger demanded that death be the price for life, that after our time in an intentionally imperfect universe, we may appreciate a perfect one. All pain, all pleasure, all suffering, all joy serves a purpose: threads woven into the tapestry by the Crone-as-Weaver, chapters written by the Poet-as-Author. When all is said in done, the universe shall truly be the greatest story ever told.

P.S. I recently found the Youtube channel of one Davis Aurini, who, like you, discusses sex, politics, and religion. Very impressive, and for an atheist, surprisingly appreciative of religion, even going so far as to praise the Christian notion of forgiveness and the sacrifice of Christ. I noticed that some of his thoughts mirror yours exactly. Have you watched any of his videos? The coincidence is staggering if not.


Unknown said...

These objections are valid-and have been made by Jews about Christianity and by atheists about religious believers of many kinds.
YouTube Christopher Hitchens regarding religion; he makes the point, too.

Anonymous said...

So, George. You've figured out that there's no god. You've figured out that the Bible looks more like the writings of Bronze Age savages than the divine commandments of a supreme being. You've realized that "Is there a god?" is as silly as "What happened before time?"

Aren't you clever?

You aren't some daring intellectual rebels, you have your own mandates of thought. You are desperate to fit in, you follow "common knowledge" like it's divine revelation. Oh sure, atheists (skeptics particularly) are intelligent, but they rarely investigate things for themselves. Intelligent people are often quite biased in their thinking. You simply regurgitate obsolete arguments about stuff. You would be surprised how many skeptics use arguments against cryogenics that were disproven in the 80s: ice crystals don't actually form in cells, you actually can freeze a brain and then get information from it. And you guys are remarkably unreasonable, given to ad hominem and moving goal posts rather than actually debating a subject if you are being confronted by good points. Very dogmatic, actually.

And then there's the Christianity obsession. When atheists attack "religion," it's often Christianity. Why "The God Delusion?" Why not "The Allah Delusion" or "The Brahma Delusion"? Atheists will always speak of the "evils" of religion, but they are almost always examples of Christians behaving badly. Atheists spend hours combing through the Bible for what they perceive to be inconsistencies to try and score points. And your grasp of Christian thinking really is quite poor. News flash: most Christians don't actually think God is a bearded guy up in the clouds. Might want to stop using that accusation if you want to be taken even a tad seriously. Demonization only works if your attacks are accurate.

And for all your protestations of oppression, you guys really are rather mainstream. If you were oppressed, would guys like Dawkins be getting invited to proselytize about their beliefs at universities and on talk shows and talk radio?

So to recap: intelligent, but hostile to contradictory views; obsessively critical of Christianity above all other faiths; and extreme mainstream status.

You don't know what you are, do you? You are the latest sect of Christianity. Your luminaries are its apostles.

Christianity is the foundation of Western civilization and all its developments, whether you like it or not. Not the Ten Commandments, not the Bible, but Christianity. You believe in the equality of all people? A uniquely Christian concept. Granted, this was initially just equality of souls, but you've run with it to the point that you demand that all people must be mentally, emotionally, legally, and economically equal. Do you believe that people are "all in this together?" Christianity established the notion of all people being on the same level, no distinction between worshipper and clergy, all fellow-travellors in life. I take it you believe in political freedom? Free will, responsibility for our actions, is the cornerstone of Christianity.

Since it's founding, Christianity has been populist. Protestantism came along and decided that the veneration of Mary and the saints was unnecessary and wrong, only a personal relationship with God is needed, and gave the texts of the faith directly to the people. For years, the practice of Christianity has been more and more dissociated from the texts. You've gone one step further, and thrown out God and Jesus and the sacraments. Throw away the mystical aspects, and you believe everything a Christian does. Your vitriol for Christianity is the same as the Protestants for Catholics during the Reformation: squabbling over which end of the egg to eat from. You talk about Christianity so much because that is your closest faith.

I know what I am. Do you? Food for thought, Georgey.


Unknown said...

Sean, you need to check your meds.

Unknown said...

They've also been made by Christians and Jews about Islam. And right wingers when debating "progressive" christians and jews when discussing things like gay marriage.
It's a valid point: God is a perfect being, but he can't tell us all upfront what he expects from us?

Anonymous said...

Ad hominem and refusal to address an argument. Do I really have you that flustered, or are your really that arrogant.

Madness has always been a handy accusation of people who couldn't process other's ideas. Enlightenment thinkers like Voltaire and Rousseau got slapped with it all the time.

The point remains: many political and social ideals that atheists hold have their foundation in Christian theology. You have far more in common with Christianity than you care to realize. Am I right or am I wrong?


Unknown said...

They've been expressed by Xtian theologians; they have their expression in other religions, sometimes much earlier religions. And by other ideologies, sometimes earlier ideologies.
I have no idea what I have in common with any religion. That's probably irrelevant.
You use an alphabet invented by pagans; do you feel a debt to people who worshiped pagan gods?

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